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Chronosync and Dropbox

dropq

New user of Dropbox here. Apologies if this is a [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] question, but is anyone using Chronosync to sync the content of folders in Dropbox with their counterpart folders on external [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drives?

Is this possible with Dropbox?

Thanks in advance

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rfiorentino

I'm surprised no one answered this for you. The short answer is yes, but the longer answer is it's a little complicated, because ChronoSync doesn't understand that dropbox can have online and off-line files. In order for everything to work correctly, anything that sinks from dropbox to somewhere else via ChronoSync needs to be always off-line. If it isn't, ChronoSync will sync only the fake dropbox placeholders for the files, and not grab the actual contents of the files/folders. This ultimately means that if files are replaced on your external [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive by versions in dropbox during the sink process, those files will be corrupted on the [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive, because they are looking for their online counterparts in dropbox which don't exist on your [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive.
This would be solved very easily if ChronoSync natively supported dropbox and it's API, like it currently does for Google cloud storage or iCloud, but they haven't implemented that as of yet. You're welcome to email them a feature request/suggestion for this though, as I think it would be immensely beneficial to a massive amount of people, and fairly easy for them to set up structurally given they already have that in place for other cloud services.

ChronoSync and dropbox are currently my main backup/sync solutions, so if you need any further assistance/have more questions please feel free to reach out to me or comment here.

dropq

Thanks so much for this very detailed and helpful response!
I will look into setting it up as you describe.

Thanks again!

Alex

Thanks @rfiorentino for that detailed response.

@dropq Let me know if that worked for you.

asherdanielfrank

Hi,

I'm trying to set up my backup/storage system and am really just stuck trying to figure it all out.

I use pro tools and logic, and my goal is to have a redundant system between by Mac mini (which is always connected to an external [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive), my Mac Pro, additional back up [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drives and dropbox. My idea is that I want to be able to work on my Mac mini, and have it immediately sync so that if I open the project on my laptop, the changes are automatically there. Obviously the easiest way to do this is to just work within a dropbox folder, but the issue is complicated by the external [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive where I store most of my projects (instead of directly on the mac's [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive).

Ideally I want to be able to access the external drive also from my laptop via Dropbox and have changes made there also be made on the drive, but I do not see how to sync the external drive with dropbox except to set it up as a backup. When the drive is a backup and I try to open a file from another computer, dropbox has conflict errors.

Further, I want all of my projects three times backed up, but in a way that if I make a change to something, it syncs to the backups as well. This was my intention in chronosync, but in trying to involve dropbox to have access between my devices and to share with collaborators, I fear I am in a labyrinth of storage and syncing. I'd really appreciate some help! Could you share more specifically how your system works? Is there a better option than dropbox?

My goal is to be able to access any project, anywhere and to have changes made synced across devices and [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drives.

rfiorentino

Hi. Another lengthy post ahead, apologies.

Here's how I currently have my system set up, maybe that will help give you some ideas. I'll dive into your specific setup in a second My system is:
All projects are on an external [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive, which is my main working drive that I take with me to sessions, work from home on, etc. I have everything under one working folder, called Sessions, for easier sync setup in ChronoSync etc but you could do this in multiple parent folders if you wanted.
That [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive project folder gets backed up in the following ways, all via ChronoSync:
Mirrored copy in Dropbox: syncs daily at 2 AM, or anytime my Mac Pro is idle for more than 15 minutes. (In your case this would likely be your Mac mini)
Backup copy on backup external [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive: once a week at 2AM

When that main [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive gets full, or I need to archive something etc, I've created an archive folder in my dropbox, and I simply move old projects etc into that folder, from within dropbox, then delete them from the [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive. Just make sure you've moved the folders in Dropbox FIRST before syncing with ChronoSync, as depending on your sync configuration, you'll either permanently delete those folders, or recopy them unnecessarily back to Dropbox.
The reason I do the archiving this way is so that Dropbox doesn't need to re-upload anything, it just relocates it all, as most of the things I'm moving are at least 30 GB or sometimes 150GB or more.

As you can see above, I primarily work off of the [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive, move it around with me, and allow most if not all changes to be made on the local external [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive before being replicated on the cloud/dropbox and other backup drives. DO NOT use dropbox backup for this; you lose almost all control, and you're relying solely on dropbox's ability to sync/deal with conflicts, which as you noted, doesn't work very well, especially in audio production. The caveat to using Dropbox as any kind of active working directory, as noted above, is that dropbox wants to store everything locally, on your internal [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive, and if you choose to force it elsewhere, you risk data corruption/loss because dropbox infuriatingly assumes that because it can't see the volume it's supposed to be on, that you must have had a change of heart and erased all of your dropbox content completely. (Someone please fix this in the Dropbox engineering team! It Is absolutely ridiculous that in the current technology world we're in, that you don't ask where the volume/folder is before deleting terabytes of data.)
I've gotten around this by literally installing a secondary internal PCIE [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive in my machine, solely for dropbox storage. This allows me to use ChronoSync bidirectionally with dropbox, though it stores on the added drive, to sync between dropbox and my external [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive. If you don't do this, and try to use dropbox files in online-only mode with ChronoSync, you'll get very undesirable results, see post above. Again, if ChronoSync would natively support Dropbox using their API or some kind of integration, most of these issues would be fixed/non-existent. Feel free to email them and request this, as the more people that do, the faster it will happen and the higher of a priority they'll view it as.

I hope all of this makes sense, please feel free to write back here or reach out privately via email etc if you need further clarification or want help in setting up ChronoSync/dropbox etc for the workflow you're comfortable with.

asherdanielfrank

Thank you so much for your detailed and thorough response. It really helps!!

There are still some issues that I see with making this system work the way that I want for my personal setup.

I suppose my main question is what's really the point of dropbox if I can't trust it to sync properly and backup between my computers and external drives?

I had seen Fab Dupont on Puremix explain his system for dropbox (where he and his team essentially work entirely off of it) but what he didn't explain (and what I'm certain exists) is how all of their projects are stored to external backups as well.

I can see myself employing a system like yours and working off of an external drive which syncs to dropbox whenever it's plugged in to the Mac mini, but I'm not sure how to implement this fully since I only have 500gb internally on that computer. It is always connected to a 1tb data m.2. But will dropbox allow me to store files here? As you said, Dropbox wants to store everything locally. That external drive is plugged in 99% of the time, but it still risks being unplugged I suppose.

Is there a way I could configure my Macmini as like a home base computer with the 1tb m.2 as the local storage, but access the files stored on that m.2 through my MacBook Pro through dropbox? Or even that I could use an external drive between my computers, but chronosync would sync from my MacBook Pro to the dropbox folder which would then be stored locally on the Mac mini's m.2?

It is quite frustrating that Dropbox is configured this way, and I will certainly be writing them an email asking for integration with chronosync, but maybe there's just a better option overall for me? Maybe I should forgo the cloud storage until it's sorted out better and just use external drives with chronosync and back those up to something like backlaze?

What are your thoughts and recommendations?

Again thank you so much for your time and knowledge. This has been driving me truly and utterly nuts, so it's really nice to get some input from someone with experience.

rfiorentino

I really wish there was a way to post an audio recording here lol because it's way too much to type, and it would be much easier to talk on the phone or through audio etc. than going back-and-forth, there's just too much information to be exchanged. If you want to email me I'm happy to give you my phone number if that's easier, I just don't want to post it publicly here. Short answer though, theoretically dropbox will work as you described, sinking changes across devices etc. If, and only if, every instance of dropbox on every machine you're using it on has a local copy of all of the content that you're working on, which for most people, is not practical. If dropbox/smart sync worked the way it theoretically should, and acted as a Netwerk Drive instead of using placeholders that need to be downloaded in the background, this problem virtually wouldn't exist. (Google Drive desktop does this very well, but it has other issues going for it which is why I've stuck with Dropbox for the moment.) But since that's not the case, if you don't have that kind of storage then your next best bet is to use ChronoSync bidirectionally with dropbox and external [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drives. However, for that to work correctly, the main ChronoSync location needs to also have a local copy of whatever dropbox content you're syncing back-and-forth with ChronoSync. Otherwise, ChronoSync will do its [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] all too well, and replace your actual files with the dropbox placeholders of them, causing them to seem corrupted by any OS that tries to interact with them.
You need to email ChronoSync about integrating their software with Dropbox API, not other way around. Dropbox itself has no interest in integrating something Like ChronoSync, because they're essentially competitors when it comes to the sinking process. but ChronoSync could have a much wider user base by allowing Itself to sync back-and-forth natively with dropbox cloud storage

asherdanielfrank

I'd be more than happy to email you and speak on the phone. That would be enormously helpful. And I always love to connect with musicians and pros in the industry!

I don't see your email here, but mine is [Removed as per Community Guidelines]

If you can shoot me an email we can exchange numbers and find a time to chat

rfiorentino

Perfect, just emailed you. I'll also see if I can add my email to my profile here somehow for future reference.

Jay

Hi everyone, we appreciate the discussion here regarding the connection of Dropbox to another app or service.

Nevertheless, we wouldn't recommend posting your emails on the community, as it would be against the Community Guidelines, for your own privacy and security.

Enjoy your weekend!

rfiorentino

I understand that, and I also wouldn't really want to post my email here. Is there a way to message people privately through the forum though? Otherwise how can people communicate privately?

Jay

Currently, there isn't a method to communicate with other users privately via the forum.

If you wish, you can suggest this change for others to vote on, so the team can look into this possibility.

victorar

Hi everyone, just seeing this thread. I discovered Chronosync yesterday and I was wondering how could it complement Dropbox? I thought Dropbox was enough for backups by I'm probably missing something.

Thanks in advance!

rfiorentino

It depends on what you want to accomplish, and how you want to accomplish it. Dropbox Backup, in general, is good for MIRRORInG data on computers/[REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drives, etc. But it will not let you have a different set of data in the cloud, and locally, nor will it let you control how that data is synced/managed between the two. This is where ChronoSync shines, more on that in a minute. So whatever you delete/modify in Dropbox Backup, for computer, will change on the computer version of those files/folders, and vise versa. Backups of external [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drives, which were just introduced, will not let you edit anything from the dropbox side at all, they are strictly a clone of the local [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive. Also, recently, dropbox seems to be revoking share access to anything in a backup, whether it's a computer or [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive (someone correct me if I'm mistaken here), which I really don't appreciate. If I choose to share something in my dropbox, wherever it may be located, I should be able to do that without restriction, but that's just my opinion.

The above explained backup solution that is part of dropbox itself doesn't work very well for me personally, because I don't have the flexibility to do what I want with the source/destination files separately, and more importantly, at least in the case of the computer backups, dropbox makes symlinks, in the form of aliases on Mac, to your documents, downloads, etc on your actual machine, and moves all of your content into your dropbox folder. This means that the OS still sees your documents path at:
/Users/Victor/Documents
But the true path of the folder is now:
/Users/Victor/Dropbox/My Mac (computer name)/Documents

In theory, this is great, because you have one version of those folders that's always synced across devices. However, if for some reason you re-install dropbox, unlink your account, etc, and forget to turn off computer backup first, your user folders for documents, downloads, music, etc get really messed up because the OS is looking for them in a place they no longer exist, because the symlinks are now broken. I've learned this the [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] way, very long story.

If dropbox backup worked like ChronoSync does, where it monitored a specific folder for changes without changing it's location or moving files around etc, and synced accordingly, it would be a much more robust solution. If you're looking for a set it and forget it, always mirrored folder structure, then dropbox backup will likely work very well for you. But if you have any kind of complex folder/file exclusion rules, or other parameters you'd like to set up for syncing, then you'll need something like ChronoSync to help you manage that. If you choose to go the third party sync root, particularly with ChronoSync, for now like mentioned above, both source and destination folders need to be locally stored somewhere, even if within dropbox, for ChronoSync to function correctly.
Sorry for the lengthy post, just trying to explain as much as I can in a way that makes sense and gives context. If you need/want to give me more specific examples of what your end goal is, I can try and point you in the right direction. Bottom line, what do you want to sync with dropbox, and how do you want that data to be maintained/managed across devices/backups? What do you want ChronoSync to help you achieve that you can or can't do with Dropbox backup on its own?

danaproducer

@asherdanielfrank

Audio people? Using Chronosync and Dropbox? Being incredibly confused and frustrated?? And also kind and helpful to one another?? I haven't felt so "heard" in many weeks of agonizing troubleshooting!! LOL. This thread, YOUR thread, has been my most thrilling internet troubleshooting discovery yet, in terms of cracking the seemingly-impossible riddle of "how to use Dropbox effectively as an audio professional with many external client [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drives."

Can I be a part of your "music industry cloud storage therapy group?" 😅 Seriously! I'm on a Dropbox Business Advanced plan, which is very expensive, only to find out that I can't get it to do what I (and you two) want it to do. But you seem to have cracked the code!

I know we're not supposed to supply personal info here. But were you two able to connect? Can you please come find me and contact me on my website? My website is dananielsen dot com 😉

Thanks!!!!

Dana

rfiorentino

Yes, absolutely! I'm glad you found this thread helpful, and I appreciate knowing that someone else is having the same experiences/struggles. We did connect 😉

ManosCh

I was just wondering if a) chronosync and dropbox have gotten any closer meantime, and b) what happens if I want to sync FROM the HDD to dropbox via Chronosync.

Cheers.

TJofLondon

Following this closely as I’m working through this same problem currently… but I think Fab said in the Puremix video he keeps none of it local, trusts Dropbox’s backup strategy only. Interesting.

rfiorentino

Hi everyone. Some great news! ChronoSync 11 is about to be released, and according to their website, will finally add NATIVE support for Dropbox. 🙂
"ChronoSync 11 adds cloud support for Dropbox, OneDrive, and Google Drive as well as many other new features."

Not sure of actual release date yet but I'm assuming it's probably pretty close, within the next few months. This is awesome, because it should solve most of the issues stated above with online-only syncing, local storage issues, etc. I'll post in this thread again when ChronoSync 11 is actually released, for anyone following. 🙂

danaproducer

@rfiorentino how exciting!! Thanks so much for helping us all with this! I'll definitely check out the new Chronosync when it arrives. Meantime, I've actually been having great luck with GoodSync, sync'ing dropbox cloud with local external HDs and NAS. Things are finally looking up! Again- with massive thanks to YOU! 🙏🏻

rfiorentino

For those who really want to dive into this, ChronoSync have released version 11 in public beta! You can download it and find out more Here

However, it looks like ChronoSync is using Apple's "file provider" APIs to do this, which is very disappointing and not ideal, because it inherently creates the same problems outlined in the first few comments in this thread.
If using the new File Provider extensions, Apple forces any content that is located in cloud storage, like Dropbox etc, to be downloaded in the background on your [REMOVED AS PER COMMUNITY GUIDELINES] drive, just like the native Dropbox app does. I was hoping that ChronoSync would get around that by allowing you to DIRECTLY link your Dropbox account to ChronoSync as a "connection target" just like you can with Amazon S3 and Google Cloud Storage/Backblaze currently. But instead, they're relying on Apple's framework to make the connection between cloud services, presumably because they don't want to have to develop an applet for every cloud provider. ChronoSync does allow you to remove downloaded/uploaded files in the background after it's done syncing using this new file provider framework, which is a nice workaround for the above, but it would still be much more efficient to directly connect the destination service. Dropbox also has not rolled out the file provider capability to all users yet, so for me, I can't test it with ChronoSync because I can't enable the feature in my Dropbox account yet. All very interesting; I'm going to email ChronoSync and ask them if there's a specific reason why they're going this file provider route, and if there's any chance they will implement direct connections to cloud service providers in the future. I'll report here if I get anywhere. 🙂